Steering rack issues and options...

[Teeth]

So here I am, an admin on the site that should really be posting up more good content--and instead I have a "stupid" question:

I would not even ask, but I am going through my front suspension before the season starts and correcting some minor issues. I had one going bad, so I am doing the wheel bearings, ok, no issue (or maybe--who has done this recently and has tips?) but looking at my steering rack I found that there's also some play in the inner tie rod (click, click) on the RH side. Crap. Also I've had a problem I've literally been chasing for years that, while there's no perceptible play, the steering seems to "bind up" slightly in that after very hard cornering the wheel comes back to center a little off in the direction of the turn. Eventually after enough working of the suspension it settles down to center in the same place, but something ain't right. Given I have a Honda with the same issue, and in that case it is known to be a poorly designed internal rack bushing, I've come to suspect I've got something a bit similar going on with my Swift.

...and that makes me think it might be as good to replace the whole rack rather than bother with the inner tie rod on the one side, because getting at and properly replacing the rack internals is fairly intense in terms of special tools. Rock Auto actually shows 1 (!) rack available to fit "automatic transmission with manual steering".

Riiiight. So I know there's no difference between manual and automatic cars--or at least I think I know... and I would have thought that there was no difference between Swift/Metro/Cultus whatever but if I do the same search for a Metro at Rock Auto I get nothing.

Can anyone confirm that the part is the same? Anybody had similar issues with "binding", or for that matter rebuilding the rack?

My guess is that this is one of those things where I'm on my own :-( but I'll probably pick up the rack, see if it actually fits, and report back if it solves my problem--but I'd love any advice that's out there.

Cheers

 

[jamalspelling]

I did the inners on my MK1's multiple times, it's a world of difference.
That said, if you're going to do 1 side, then do the other. And while you're in there
do the outer tie rod ends as well, and probably the boots.
I will say that when it's apart, check the teeth on the rack for wear, this could
cause your off centering/return issue. If the visual shows abnormal wear,
then consider replacing the rack. When the boots are off and you have the wheel
clocked one way or the other, it will expose much of the teeth for inspection.
If everything looks good, you can slap some grease in there before putting
everything back together to extend the usable life. Also, when it's on jacks
or up in the air or whatever and you have the tie rods off the steering arm,
it's much easier to detect if there is indeed any binding or rough area as
you clock the wheel from one extreme to the other.
You could have issues in other suspension related components that contribute
to your issue. A bent steering arm, bent strut rod or worn strut rod bushing will
cause issues as well. For example the MK1 has the sway bar integrated with the
strut rod, so even a worn sway bar bushing or mount will cause issues with
the steering axis inclination. Any modern alignment machine will easily
detect if the SAI is out of spec. If you have difficulty parking in tight spots,
this can be an indication of out of spec SAI, or it could also be the result
of an improper rim/tire application.
Or it could even be a worn strut bushing/bearing that is binding.
One summer I drove around in a '65 Chevy Pickup that that had a
steering binding issue, it turned out that the oil dipstick was not fully seated
and was catching on the steering column shaft rag joint. So you should fully
inspect all components and see if there is anything else that could possibly
be causing interference.

 

[Teeth]

I did the inners on my MK1’s multiple times, it’s a world of difference.
That said, if you’re going to do 1 side, then do the other. And while you’re in there
do the outer tie rod ends as well, and probably the boots.
I will say that when it’s apart, check the teeth on the rack for wear, this could
cause your off centering/return issue. If the visual shows abnormal wear,
then consider replacing the rack.

I'm so lazy, lol. My thought was, I could do what you suggest or I could simply bolt on a remanufactured rack with five fasteners, saving me an hour or more of labor. You've at least convinced me to go ahead, pull, and take a hard look at this rack first, though. Just the potential for discovering an issue I can point to for causing the steering funniness would be worth it, plus I can use it to verify fitment if I swap it instead--I'd be tempted to simply do that no matter what I find with a simple inspection (properly checking and replacing that internal bushing correctly looks challenging in the FSM). FWIW a used Geo rack is $35. If a used one has tie rods check out and it turns smoothly, it's again, 5 fasteners to "freedom". If it doesn't last as long as a rebuilt unit, I should still be able rule out the rack as the cause of the wheel-centering problem. I've checked and rechecked my outer tie rods and my ball joints--they don't have that brand-new stiffness, but the boots are fine and there's no detectable play, so I'm going to keep them greased and just keep running them as long as they are good.

Also, you'll remember this car--it has all poly bushings, spherical top mounts, coilovers built around Koni double-adjustable race inserts and is generally shod with one of several "improper rim/tire applications" for street or competition. I do my own alignments as far as camber and toe (and have made modifications to allow for that adjustment at all corners) so I've clearly monkeyed with the inclination axis on purpose :laugh: I've been through everything, twice and can't seem to replicate the issue with the static car--nothing I can do at rest or on jack stands gives me any clue what's going on, so at this point I've gotten used to it--just hoping to maybe correct it while I take care of other little things I've noticed need to be refreshed.

 

[suzukitom]

there is no difference between manual steering racks for manual vs automatic Swifts (mk 2 / 3 / 4 / 5)

as for poor centering.. are the tie rod adjusters somewhat balanced from side to side? if not, the universal joints in the connector shaft connecting steering column and rack might be in a less than optimal orientation when the steering wheel is in the straight ahead position.

 

[fireflyse]

Inspect for play/rattling between the rack shaft and housing ends. If anyone ever clipped a curb it can induce a deformation on the rack bushings that can bind or rattle. You'd swear your chashing a ball joint/tie rod issue

 

[Teeth]

Inspect for play/rattling between the rack shaft and housing ends. If anyone ever clipped a curb it can induce a deformation on the rack bushings that can bind or rattle. You’d swear your chasing a ball joint/tie rod issue

Correct answer, or at least part of the problem. I got as far as removing the inner tie rods and found my "click" was not a tie rod, but a tiny amount of play on the bushing side. the amount of play is very small and maybe most people would not notice, but I can also feel it if I work the rack carefully with a vise grip (around some rubber so as to protect the splines).

So I bought the reman one from Rock Auto. Thanks to Suzukitom for quickly confirming the racks are all the same, which I was pretty sure of, but it's nice to be sure when the fitment catalog is incorrect (parts supplier actually listed as fitting Swifts 94-00 but Metros only 95+, who knows why). This comment:

the universal joints in the connector shaft connecting steering column and rack might be in a less than optimal orientation when the steering wheel is in the straight ahead position

Got me looking at how my car was put together, in that the tie rods were pretty close to even, but the orientation of the column did not match what I saw in the FSM. Here's how I found it with the wheels straight ahead:

I turned the wheel roughly 90 degrees to the right to pull the rack and noticed a mark that might have once been lined up straight down?

And this is what I find in the FSM, which doesn't quite match either.

Those who have done this, were your cars marked? Should I put it back like it was, line up the mark or try to make it look as much like the FSM as possible? I did not think any of this had ever been previously disassembled on my car, but one of the rack fasteners is cross-threaded so I'm suspicious.

 

[blueturbofly]

i just asked my son, he said that there were no marks that he noticed when changing his steering rack...we just made sure the tires were pointing straight, and he installed the steering shaft so the steering wheel was straight....only paint dots noticed were on the bolt heads.
he only removed the lower pinch bolt. as far as we know it was the oem rack, it was replaced because it was very clunky sounding and had play in it, tie rods were ok

 

[suzukitom]

Teeth,

To clarify, I confirmed that transmission type (AT vs MT) was not relevant when selecting a manual steering rack to install on a mk2 - mk5 Swift or Metro. You still need to consider which MK # you are selecting a steering rack for.

Assuming you are working on your mk3 GT.. you should be ordering a manual steering rack to fit a mk2 or mk3 Metro or Swift.

I'll take a picture of my 91 GT steering column shaft joint orientation tomorrow morning.

 

[suzukitom]

91 GT steering column to rack intermediate shaft u-joint orientation:

flat index to steering column orientation:

it matches the factory manual orientation:

steps to use to match factory orientation:
1. install steering rack and align front wheels straight ahead and with both tie rods threaded as close to an equal length as possible.
2. install intermediate shaft to steering rack input spline using factory manual orientation for bolt location. There are no indexes on the rack spline end.
3. install intermediate shaft into steering column joint. It is indexed so that the flat side will only go in one way and still allow the pinch bolt to fit.
4. if the steering wheel is not centered at this point , remove from steering column to steering wheel splines and install in a centered position.

 

[Teeth]

suzukitom that info is really appreciated!

This thread is becoming a rack-rebuild thread :-(

I've actually never heard of anyone having a problem with the steering racks in these cars, and I suspect I am rebuilding a rack nobody else would mess with, but it's my race car and if there's anything I want to be flawless it's the steerting, so:

First I bought the reman rack from Rockauto to find that it was for Mk4 after all--worth a try as the catalog was obviously wrong, but hard to know in which direction unless you can look at it. At least Rockauto completely refunded me. For anyone that want's to know, the racks are actually dimensionally identical with the exception of the steering shaft housing and steering shaft, both of which are longer than the Mk2-3 racks.

I then pulled a rack at the local Pick and Pull too, which was in pretty good shape but once I had it off the car I found it had the same small "click" when moving the rack back and forth at the rh (passenger) side that mine had and that I suspect indicates a worn bushing. I bet it's still there if anybody wants it.

So I gave up, started taking mine apart, and ordered a new bushing, pinion bearing, boots and plastic plunger parts from Megazip. Can't be that hard right?

Pulling the plunger parts, pinion gear and shaft out is pretty straight forward. I used a giant adjustable wrench instead of 43mm socket.

The pinion gears looks a little cleaner than maybe I'd like it, but everything seems ok and there's plenty of good grease--not going to mess with that bearing because Suzuki doesn't even sell it separately (and the pinion shaft is expensive) so I just put it in a bag for now.

The actual pinion needle bearing is in there :beaten:

I bought a replacement because they were cheap, but I'm not sure I'm going to use it, as, without the special tool I have no idea how I'd get it out of there. I also don't have any indication that it's bad. Any tips on how to do it with regular tools would be welcome--but if nobody has any ideas I am likely to just slap some more grease in there, put it back together and just install a new bushing and boots, which I know need to be refreshed.

I have not yet decided if I will replace the inner tie rods--the OEM parts now have almost 190k on them, but no play is no play and I suspect anything I can get aftermarket will not last as well.

Another question, though: I don't have a good way of cleaning every last bit of the old grease out of the rack. I've tried to keep dirt out of the case and feel that it might not be terrible to just clean what I can actually reach and pack with new grease--what grease should I use to best match what's already in there? Again, any suggestions welcome.

Once I got the rack out it was time to remove the rack bushing. I forgot to take out the snap ring first, then finally looked at the FSM again to figure out what I was missing. Don't do that. It's "blind" meaning it doesn't have the little holes for a snap ring pliers, so it's a little tricky. I used a pick and found the easiest way was to actually tap the bushing just a little further into the rack, then the push open ends of the ring further in such that I could pull the other side out.

Sorry for the crappy pic, but you get the idea.

Also, the special tool the FSM tells you that you need to pull the bushing looks fairly complicated, like you can't just use a socket. Except you can--just use some extensions and the right diameter socket (probably a 17mm) like I did and it's super easy to tap out from the other side.

I did find that the "special coating" was scratched and worn through on the top and bottom of the bushing. I can imagine how, given it's shape, if it has worn into a slightly oval shape on the inside it could rock a little bit in the tube and bind up the steering in exactly the way mine was behaving.

We'll see.

It also seems obvious exactly how this could be made worse by subjecting this whole business to much higher loads than it was designed for. Since I'm obviously not going to stop doing that, I'm considering filling the grooves of the new bushing, when it arrives, with polyurethane before I install it. Anybody going to tell me that's a terrible idea? Will the grease eat the PU or be contaminated by it? Which grease should I use again?

To be continued...

 

[blueturbofly]

blind hole bearing removal tool, to remove that tiny needle bearing. or white bread. ;-)

look up ''pilot shaft bearing removal with bread''

 

[Teeth]

Finally wrapped up this job :-D

So, first I meant to include a picture of the old bushing in the last post, because you could see where the coating on the inside was damaged. This is what it looked like:

Against my better judgement, because I bought it, I decided I really was going to pull the old needle bearing and swap it. I've used the "white bread" trick before (works better with playdough, actually) but there's almost no space in the cavity behind the bearing and I didn't want to have to clean the mess out of the rack afterwards. I called a general auto machine shop, figuring they would have a blind-hole puller tool and their rate would be cheaper than buying a tool just for this job. But the shop said they didn't have a tool and started talking about welding something to the race--and I decided that wouldn't end well :doubt: So I bought one from harbor freight for a bit more than their hourly rate (after the typical discounts): https://www.harborfreight.com/slide...01.html?_br_psugg_q=blind+hole+bearing+puller

FWIW this is a terrible tool, lol. I found I had to modify the small attachment lip with a grinder for it to grab the bearing, and then I still had to heat the rack from the other side to get it to finally pop out. It is not made out of hardened metal--possibly it is made out of old cheese? A center post expands the petals to grip the bearing, put the pulling force will drive the petals back into the soft metal of that post and lose grip. This is what I did to modify the tool:

I also had to repeated grind out the "dents" the petals pushed into the center post and try again. To be fair, there's almost no room behind the bearing--here's a pic of where it sits in the housing once it's removed:

It actually only worked at all because I made the lip thin enough to grab underneath the bearing's rollers.

At least tapping the new one in was no problem. I did put the bearing in the freezer to help out, but that might not be necessary. The bearing press tool was much easier to fudge with a small socket.

I nearly had a heart attack when I saw that the new rack bushing was not the same size :x

Or...was it? I figured there was a chance the ribs would squash down when I tapped it in with a socket and I still can't believe they did, but they did. Maybe the old one was bigger before it was installed? Anyway, it worked. It's maddeningly hard to get the bushing in square, but as long as it's close it's not an issue as the rack will straighten it out when you insert it.

The new rack plunger was a substantially upgraded metal part. Score :-D

From there everything was pretty straight forward putting it all back together--I did have to guess what 0.5-1 ft/lb feels like as far as tension on the plunger, but the slight play/click is all gone and if feel great! I'll probably regret reusing the old inner tie rods and the pinion shaft gear/bearing assembly, but both those were much more expensive and didn't seem to be bad. I used to always do all the "while you're in there" stuff, but working on cars where parts availability is a crap shoot and the original parts seem orders of magnitude better than aftermarket--and the whole process is not that time consuming, and I sometimes take "short cuts". I hope this helps anybody that has steering issues--I suspect that rack bushing starts to allow a little slop between 150 and 200k on most cars. Most won't notice, but if you do, it's easy enough to fix

 

[macuserman]

[usermention=48]@Teeth[/usermention] Sweet write up I need to do this!

 

[Teeth]

Maybe.

I feel bound by a commitment to full disclosure that after thorough testing I've found that none of the work I did had any effect on my steering wheel centering issue. :-(

It is quite possible that there's no way to run wide, sticky rubber and push the car without some of this, or it's inherent to my custom fabbed coilover setup or? or? I did not try to fill the voids in the bushing with PU, as there just didn't seem to be a good way to do that given I needed to grease it to slide it into the case.

I also find that if anything, while I definitely did get rid of a tiny amount of play in the worn bushing (no more click) that seemed like an inner tie rod issue (but wasn't), there remains a few mm of play in the actual pinion gear. IDK if that means I need to cough up $127 for that assembly, but for now I believe it's within spec so I'm just going to live with it and be annoyed.

So, it's possible I've eliminated a possible tire-wear issue and the steering is not perceptibly worse. But it is also definitely no better. It's exactly the same. :-(