Place for chatting and discussing anything unrelated to swifts.
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By jumpinwired
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#9810
So I’ve been looking at EVs for my daily driver. Initially I started looking at the Tesla model 3. Just the cheapest one at 38k usd as this would likely be the only option I could afford if at all. Also Tesla is something like a base line or standard in EVs IMO.

There is a lot I could say about what I’ve learned while looking into Tesla but I believe I will opt for a more budget friendly choice. So I found the Nissan leaf is a cheap buy but no cooling on the battery pack so degradation is substantial in comparison to others. Certainly several other options released over the past year or two but again trying to stay affordable.

The Chevy bolt ev is one I’ve been looking at for a few days now and seems like a good fit for me. However this would be a first in my family to transition to a completely electric vehicle. The Bolt has most of the basic EV features that Tesla offers. Certainly no really comparison for many many reasons but the general design of the motor/cooling system exists in both. Preconditioning for the battery to maintain battery life from charges. Battery size, driving range and drag coefficient are in the same ball park. Cameras for assisted driving related features. Charging options including 240v at home and fast charging on the road. Both have a lot of feel good infotainment capabilities and support Android auto or car play. I’m likely forgetting some other mentionable similarities.

Bottom line is, I’m considering adding an EV for my daily to save some money on fuel and hopefully mitigate ICE related failures or short comings. I know there is still some maintenance to keep an EV in good order but to my understanding, an EV would likely be very dependable or even more so than an ICE vehicle.

There is a good chance that I would have to get rid of most of my other vehicles so I’m hoping to get a little feed back and see what opinions and knowledge you guys have on this. I’m really hoping to keep my Swift’s but I may have to choose. And to be clear, I’m looking at around 15k -20k usd for a used 2017 bolt.

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By top [email protected]
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#9811
For me, none of the full electric vehicles are an option without having a second vehicle for travel. You may want to look at the hybrid models which, on a daily basis, are the same as full electric as around town vehicles but give you the ability of travel without the inconvenience of having to spend extra time at a charging station (which are few up here). It also increases the choices you have.

The other concern I would have with full electric is battery life and replacement cost when they die. If the vehicle has no back up form of power, then you are stuck with a dead vehicle that is pretty much worthless if you can’t afford the replacement batteries.

You would need to take money that you save from fuel and maintenance cost and set it aside to spend for batteries. Until purchase cost and longevity issues have been brought to a point where they equal a combustion engine car, then full electric isn’t on my list for daily drivers.

That’s my 2 watts worth.
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By suzukitom
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#9812
(1) Fuel: Gasoline will likely remain the dominant energy source unless new car buyers stop buying vehicles that use gas. Some countries are changing faster then others by governments starting to reshape buyer habits with purchase incentives as well as laws that will eventually ban sales of fuel burning cars. Until then our Swifts and Metros fuel running costs remain competitive with that of public transit. (and likely more so.. after the pandemic as transit operators attempt to recoup losses from low ridership)

(2) insurance: costs of car insurance are starting to dwarf fuel costs in some places
So buyers are just buying whatever they want to drive.. and the heck with fuel economy.

(3) driving pleasure: it’s arguable that some folks want connection to their machinery. it’s the reason why there are still new and used cars with manual transmissions, convertible tops, loud exhausts, bodies that need rust repair, and RockAuto.com! It’s hard to imagine people modding or even wanting to work on their Teslas or Bolts. Doing a burn out in a EV that is either silent or sounds like a leaf blower isn’t very inspiring. Admit it, who would go to watch a rocket launch event unless there was lots of smoke and fire (aka combustion)

(4) vehicle lifespan: we all drive 20+ year old cars here.. and I think we’ll get another 20 out of them at least.. with minimal effort. Modern EV cars have massive amounts of electronics and sealed modules that will eventually fail. The aftermarket is unlikely to offer you replacement parts and OE manufacturers might not want to stock them.. I don’t think a Tesla sitting in a field will be easily revived after 10 years under a tarp.

(5) obsolescence: Current heavy EV designs will eventually be replaced by technologies that solve the recharge time problems and lack of practical charging capacity. At the point where it only takes 2 minutes or less to fully recharge at ALL service stations in the country, and the cost for buying an EV over a gas version is negligible … you will see much more EV purchases, and a steady 10 year long death timeline for gasoline cars..
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By jumpinwired
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#9813
Thank you guys for your input. Very helpful stuff and a reminder of some things I haven’t really thought too much about.

top [email protected] wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:06 pm

For me, none of the full electric vehicles are an option without having a second vehicle for travel.

Basically I agree and I will be keeping at least one of my other vehicles, no question.

You may want to look at the hybrid models which, on a daily basis, are the same as full electric as around town vehicles but give you the ability of travel without the inconvenience of having to spend extra time at a charging station (which are few up here). It also increases the choices you have.

So my question to that is, can you set a hybrid to use only electric or disable the combustion engine for city driving? I thought I heard you could do that with a Prius but I never looked into it.

I once drove a Highlander hybrid and the engine ran each time I accelerated unless I tried to accelerate very slowly, much too slow for the people behind me. I would like to control that factor if I were to consider a hybrid.

The other concern I would have with full electric is battery life and replacement cost when they die. If the vehicle has no back up form of power, then you are stuck with a dead vehicle that is pretty much worthless if you can’t afford the replacement batteries.

You would need to take money that you save from fuel and maintenance cost and set it aside to spend for batteries. Until purchase cost and longevity issues have been brought to a point where they equal a combustion engine car, then full electric isn’t on my list for daily drivers.

That’s my 2 watts worth.

Yes the battery life is certainly a big concern when considering an EV. I have done a little bit of research and as long as the vehicle has a coolant system for the battery and can be preconditioned for the charging process, this should minimize battery degradation.

I mean it’s all kind of a gamble with a battery anyway but charging in extreme cold, fast charging and running the battery too low or charging it too high seems to be the issues causing degradation.

I should be charging at home or at work on a slow charge almost all of the time. I really don’t do much traveling, especially further than the range of these vehicles.

Based on what I’ve read, the battery degradation is the most at the beginning of the battery’s life and then it levels out. In a nut shell if you take care of it, it should last the life of the car. If you quick charge a lot, then I would expect to replace the battery at some point. Not sure how much to replace a battery in the bolt and I can’t remember on the Tesla. I will look into that.

Solid state batteries are supposed to be the next wave of battery tech. I understand that when this becomes available to consumers buying EV’s with solid state batteries, the old will quickly be obsolete. Sort of a paradigm shift where my new car would be worth next to nothing, so just drive it until the battery is dead I guess.

However irrelevant it maybe, avoiding gas stations all together is very appealing. Just plug in at night like your smart phone and your ready to go when you wake up. Yeah I feel like I’m bias or naive so that’s the reason for this thread anyway.

Thanks for the watts, my 🚗 may need them.
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By blueturbofly
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#9814
….because the power out of your wall is environmentally sourced from the wind and dove farts…..
electric cars are not environmentally friendly, like they are made out to be.
people want to be '‘green’' but go about it all wrong.
get naked. live in a fur hut, that you got buy hunting / trapping your last meal
south park '‘smug’' comes to mind
they can pry my ICE out of my cold dead hands
sure they have their place but for any kind of commute its not worth it for me….
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By top [email protected]
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#9815
jumpinwired wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:03 pm

I once drove a Highlander hybrid and the engine ran each time I accelerated unless I tried to accelerate very slowly, much too slow for the people behind me. I would like to control that factor if I were to consider a hybrid


You might want to check out this one. James May loves his apparently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_i3
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By jumpinwired
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#9818
suzukitom wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:05 pm

(1) Fuel: Gasoline will likely remain the dominant energy source unless new car buyers stop buying vehicles that use gas. Some countries are changing faster then others by governments starting to reshape buyer habits with purchase incentives as well as laws that will eventually ban sales of fuel burning cars. Until then our Swifts and Metros fuel running costs remain competitive with that of public transit. (and likely more so.. after the pandemic as transit operators attempt to recoup losses from low ridership)

Agreed, certainly ICE cars are not going anywhere too soon and I would always want to keep at least one incase of power outages or other situations like forgetting to plug in some times. Clearly electric is the way of the future but no one technology is really 100% dependable.

(2) insurance: costs of car insurance are starting to dwarf fuel costs in some places
So buyers are just buying whatever they want to drive.. and the heck with fuel economy.

Insurance is something that I haven’t looked into yet but I expect the model 3 to be expensive. I think I will have to remove two or more cars from my plan just to balance it out a bit. I have no idea about cost for the Bolt yet. At this point an insurance quote is on my to-do list but I’m trying to narrow the field a little before I get a quote.

(3) driving pleasure: it’s arguable that some folks want connection to their machinery. it’s the reason why there are still new and used cars with manual transmissions, convertible tops, loud exhausts, bodies that need rust repair, and RockAuto.com! It’s hard to imagine people modding or even wanting to work on their Teslas or Bolts. Doing a burn out in a EV that is either silent or sounds like a leaf blower isn’t very inspiring. Admit it, who would go to watch a rocket launch event unless there was lots of smoke and fire (aka combustion)

Very true, ICE cars hold the imbodiment of the hot rod/thrill experience with all of the senses rattled when you’re laying down some rubber. EV cars have the instant torque and low center of gravity but that’s basically it when we’re talking about driver experience. Personally, I will always have spot in my heart for combustion and there is no replacing that.

(4) vehicle lifespan: we all drive 20+ year old cars here.. and I think we’ll get another 20 out of them at least.. with minimal effort. Modern EV cars have massive amounts of electronics and sealed modules that will eventually fail. The aftermarket is unlikely to offer you replacement parts and OE manufacturers might not want to stock them.. I don’t think a Tesla sitting in a field will be easily revived after 10 years under a tarp.

This is likely the hardest part to argue with since there is not much data yet to speak for an EV life expectancy. I mean to say that 20+ years time hasn’t passed yet for any modern EV similar to what I’m looking at.

I used to say all the time that the more electronics they put into a car, the harder and more expensive they are to repair. You know the saying, “they don’t make em like they used to”.

Based on some of the info I’ve learned, with the cooling systems for the battery and if you avoid quick charging as much as possible, some of these cars might last 15+ plus years easy. It’s uncharted territory but I see your point about parts and repairs if they won’t hold up to the test of time.

(5) obsolescence: Current heavy EV designs will eventually be replaced by technologies that solve the recharge time problems and lack of practical charging capacity. At the point where it only takes 2 minutes or less to fully recharge at ALL service stations in the country, and the cost for buying an EV over a gas version is negligible … you will see much more EV purchases, and a steady 10 year long death timeline for gasoline cars..

I agree with everything you said here. I hope that electric and gas vehicles can co exist for a very long time but the shift is inevitable.

One of my biggest concerns going forward is tyranny. I’m not a conspiracy nut but I believe that people in office like to have power. I don’t want to be stuck with out electricity at my house for an extended time while trying to flee from terrorist or something similar. What a better way to take over a country than to convert everyone to electric and then deprive them of just that.

Thanks again for everyone replying. Keep it coming if you have more to say about this topic.
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By jumpinwired
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#9820
blueturbofly wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:07 pm

….because the power out of your wall is environmentally sourced from the wind and dove farts…..
electric cars are not environmentally friendly, like they are made out to be.
people want to be '‘green’' but go about it all wrong.
get naked. live in a fur hut, that you got buy hunting / trapping your last meal
south park '‘smug’' comes to mind
they can pry my ICE out of my cold dead hands
sure they have their place but for any kind of commute its not worth it for me….

When I heard about the carbon footprint on the production of the Prius back when, I was a bit surprised. I didn’t really know anything about it and they definitely advertised the green side of things.

I think the production of the lithium ion batteries are terrible for the environment also. I’m not too concerned about the impact on the environment from these cars but I do recycle and try to conserve in a number of ways.

The world will end one day and there will be a renewing of things. Nothing we do here will carry through the end of times but I think it’s good to take part in the effort to keep things cleaner for the present while we are living here and passing this world on to our kids.

But you are absolutely right, electrical plants are consuming resources and polluting the environment much like ICE vehicles. I don’t really know how the impact from each compares but my biggest comparison is for my wallet.

Thanks for your input. I hope nobody is still falling for the going green propaganda.
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By blueturbofly
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#9821
when a ev can do at least 1000 km on a charge, i MIGHT be SOMEWHAT interested…
i have seen lead acid battery metro conversions….old tech…30 to 45 miles PER CHARGE….ouch…
for me, i like my heat in winter and decent tunes…and quick 5 minute gas fill up and go….

….and i think everybody hates dead batteries on your power tools…..

and yes, i recycle as much as possible- i still drive a metro, after all….. :P
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By fireflyse
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#9823
I’m for anything that gets us to stop sucking on the oil teat.
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